In the face of international pressure – including the Americans – Israel has pulled its ground troops out of Gaza.
In total, one Israeli civillian and two Israeli soldiers have been killed. The Palestinian death toll is estimated at 112, an unspecified number of which were civillians.
Israel’s illegal offensive started on Wednesday following the death of an Israeli civillian from a rocket fired by a Palestinian militant.
A statement from the US said “The violence needs to stop and the talks need to resume” and Condoleezza Rice, US Secretary for killing muslims, said “We’re encouraging Israel to exercise caution to avoid the loss of innocent life”. Fucking hypocrite.
Federal Europe criticised Israel’s “disproportionate use of force” and Turkey – which is one of Israel’s only arab allies – said there was “no humane or legal justification for the attacks on Gaza”.
If this was perpetrated by any other country but Israel, America would have invaded by now.
See Also: The price of an Israeli life
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Stuart, The Israellis were responding to weeks, and weeks of daily rocket attacks. They tried peaceful means, restrictions at the borders, and on fuel supplies, and so on but still the rockets were fired into Israel.
What would you expect any other country to do in response to hundreds of rockets being fired into their territory, what would we do?
Steve, they’re not Israel’s borders to restrict. Palestine is a sovereign nation and recognised as such by the UN. It is, in fact, the only sovereign nation under occupation of a foreign power.
We were at the mercy of the IRA for a long time, remember. They set off a bomb in Shrewsbury, my local big town at the time when I lived out in the sticks. What did we do with the IRA that the Israeli’s need to do? Compromise. The British government said that they would not hand Northern Ireland over to the Republic of Ireland but that they would restore devolution and give the Irish Republic a bit more involvement in the administration of Northern Ireland. It wasn’t what either side particularly wanted but it was a compromise and the withdrawal of troops from Northern Ireland was an important part of that. There are still trouble makers but they are few and far between and they don’t have the support of most Irish people. Israel is a country, their soldiers are an army. The Palestinian militants, meanwhile, are a terrorist group – they aren’t the Palestinian Army. Israel is illegally occupying Palestine, they commit human rights abuses on a regular basis and flout international law and the Geneva Convention almost daily. Nothing will change while they continue to use military force to try and depose the democratically elected government and whilst they continue to exercise control of Palestinian borders, air space and territorial waters.
Yes, but until the republicans became willing to compromise there was no end in site to the Troubles.
THe Palestinians in Gaza are in the unfortunate position of having a ‘runaway military train’ randomly shooting rockets over the border and suffering the consequences of the level of retaliation that Israel is capable of.
This is just a shadow of the Cold War, where client states are used as proxies for foreign diplomacy
What would happen if all Palestinians disarmed tomorrow? There would be peace.
What would happen if all Israelis disarmed tomorrow? There would be a massacre.
What would happen if a rocket hit an Israeli schoolbus? There would be cheering in Gaza and handing out candy.
What would happen if in trying to fire on Gazan rockets, civilians were killed? General sadness in Israel.
Israel withdrew from Gaza and was prepared to withdraw from other areas also, if only there were peace. Instead deadly rockets are being fired at Israel daily. Calling for proportionate responses is saying there is no right to self defence. Besides if there were a proportionate response, randomly firing rockets back, there would be even more condemnation against Israel.
The Northern Ireland peace process is often cited as as example for Israel. I believe that it represents a false analogy.
But let’s put my opinion aside and read the words of Lord David Trimble, a key player in the Northern Ireland process.
24 October 2007
Launch of “Misunderstanding Ulster” by Lord Trimble
“Over generous flexibility towards Hamas is like giving sweets to a spoilt child” says Lord Trimble
Lord David Trimble warned today that the lessons of the Northern Ireland peace process have not been properly understood.
At the launch of his pamphlet “Misunderstanding Ulster”, published by Conservative Friends of Israel, David Trimble called on the Quartet and the international community to stand firm on its stance on Hamas ahead of the Annapolis Israel/Palestine peace conference in November or December.
In the text of the comprehensive document David Trimble re-examines the Northern Ireland Peace process ‘model’ and exposes limits of the analogy in the context of the Middle East Peace Process.
Trimble argues,
“Nowhere is the analogy applied more vigorously than in the case of the Israel-Palestinian conflict. For those eager to inject a ‘creative breakthrough’ there, the lessons from Northern Ireland are often cited as an inspiration. The foremost expression of this can be seen in the response of many to the growing status and influence of Hamas in recent years.”
He says,
“It is essential to recognise that Northern Ireland’s peace process operated within a distinct context – and one scarcely repeated elsewhere… this narrative which has been transported – often uncritically – to the Middle East, is fundamentally misleading about the true achievements of the Northern Ireland Peace process.”
“If there is one lesson to learn from Northern Ireland’s experience – contrary to what is often recommended in relation to dialogue with Hamas – it is that ‘pre-conditions’ were crucial to ending the violence in producing a settlement.”
Within his report, Lord Trimble cites the near total collapse of the Northern Ireland peace process on ‘Bloody Friday’ in 1972 as evidence that weakening pre-conditions to dialogue makes violence more, not less, likely.
At the launch David Trimble questioned whether players in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict were seeking victories or accommodation – whereas majority opinion in Israel is in the market for “accommodation” he argued Hamas may still be on the lookout for “victories”.
“Hamas don’t want accommodation; rather, they have played into the hands of the most intransigent elements in the Middle East”
And there, in that last sentence is the difference between Hamas et al and the IRA during the Northern Ireland peace process. Those terrorist organisations that operate from without and within Israel must be tackled and ultimately disarmed if there is to be peace in the region. The political will must exist from among the Arab world to do so. That desire as far as I can see does not exist and shows no sign of becoming apparent.
Terrorism is a crime against humanity and I consider terrorists to be the very enemies of mankind and as such they should be given no quarter and no consideration as to their purported grievances.
As I have said on this forum before, there can be no compromise with terror: to do so emboldens the perpetraitors of violence. Only when the IRA announced a cease-fire in 1995 did a breakthrough occur in Northern Ireland and only recently with weapons decommisioning has democracy flourished. There is precious little sign of these kinds of gestures from the Arab world towards Israel. Half of them still dispute Israel’s right to exist.
I acknowledge that some progress has been made towards achieving the road map. However, I remain concerned that all the movement is coming from Israel and that she may leave herself open to an even more violent and terrible situation in the future.”
Israeli Weakness
The real facts of the matter are that if the Israeli’s withdraw entirely from the West Bank and Gaza, the entire region would become open to Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Queida, you name it. The Israeli’s leave and they come in. These organisations will sense Israel’s weakness and will exploit their monumental opportunity.
Does anyone seriously think that their ambitions will stop there? Jerusalem is the target. Rather than the two-state solution heralding the end of conflict, what these groups could unleash, in the face of Israeli weakness and withdrawal, could in fact be the beginning of unimaginable conflict and suffering.
A World without Zionism
Here is what Iranian President Ahmadinejad said at a conference in Tehran entitled “A World Without Zionism”
“The occupation regime of Qods (Jerusalem, or Israel) must be wiped off the map of the world, and with the help of the Almighty, we shall soon experience a world without America and Zionism, not withstanding those who doubt….To those who doubt, to those who ask is it possible, or to those who do not believe, I say accomplishment of a world without America and Isreal is both possible and feasible”.
But George, you can’t take a publication by Friends of Israel as an unbiased publication! I’m not pro- either side, I just disagree with Israel breaking international law and abusing human rights. The fact is, Israel are behaving like a bunch of cavemen and not a supposedly grown-up member of the international community.
I don’t particularly care for “Lord” Trimble – so I will not treat kindly nor seriously his assertion that if the Palestinians get a homeland this will embolden those who want to drive Israelis into the sea…
Most likely, the creation of a Palestinian state would provide peace and security for Israelis and Palestinians – thus undermining the warmongers on both sides.
I love this site and just wish I was as smart as you guys but maybe I can at least give you a smile?
Criminal Lawyer is a redundancy. 🙂