Just a quick hello to my colleagues at Capgemini in North Britain.
Don’t forget to purchase a souvenier …
I’m all for independant states. Seperate parliments etc.
During the segregation, I assume we Scots will actually be allowed to control our own oil industry/Health Service and all the other fun packed things that the “British” parliment happily bugger about with.
Scotland, attempting to rebuild Hadrian’s Wall since 1707.
Hello to our Southern Scottish Isle but sad to announce that we will not be purchasing any items from yourself as we are to selling our own items if you would like to enquire about anything let us know as we have many different tartans, flags (mainly of the blue and white variety) etc etc also we have a selection of WELSH stuff just for you Stuart(Part Welsh) also for your personal use we do have a selection of inflatable sheep and also some of the pitch from Wembely that we took home in ’77.
How about we get a petition for Hadrians Wall to be put back up to keep you southern scots out of mainland scotland..
Goodbye please do not hesitate get in touch with us about any of our fine products on sale..
The GIS (Scottish) Elite
The Declaration of Arbroath
as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule
Oh Aye and Wembley 1967.
Enjoy it ya Half English , Half Welsh Inbred
Check out my website taff!
What a heap of absolute Pish. Who the hell do you english prats think you are.
Sponsoring Scotland?? Keep your Pedo sponsoring to yourself.
Scotland Hating England since Adam And Eve.
At least we can all agree that parliment should be split…
Message from Kelvin:
“Who is the Tartan Army?”
The Tartan Army are a bunch of wig wearing ginger in-bred highland losers who follow a so-called team around various countries watching them lose. The only game I can remember them winning was the time when the other team didn’t turn up and all they had to do was kick off to win. See you in Europe in 2008 … if there’s a war coz you aint gonna make the championsips. Again.
My parents were brother and sister ?
My mama takes it up the gary glitter.
Have a very merry christmas.
Mike, Braveheart, you’re under Scottish rule – Traitor Bliar, Gordon Brown, etc. You can have control of your oil when you give us back our oil.
Sorry to rain on your parade Wonko, but your supposition that England has been sponsoring Scotland since 1707 is a load of bollocks.
I assume that is based on the idea that Scotland was actually bankrupt before the Union and England generously bailed her out?
If it is, that proposition is actually quite wrong.
It would be far more true to say that a good many SCOTS were bankrupt before the Union, but not Scotland herself. What is strangely forgotten was that the finance for the Darien Scheme came from PRIVATE finances, such as banks and individuals. The money never came from public funds from the Scottish Government. At the time of the Union Scotland was, admittedly, very poor but she only had a relatively small National Debt for the time.
Actually, of the two parties who entered the Act of Union it would be much closer to say that it was ENGLAND, not Scotland, who was much closer to bankruptcy. England, in 1707, had a very high National Debt of £14.5 million pounds due to all the wars she was fighting, and the English Treasury was actually practically empty, as in the five years to 1707 the English were able to mint only £82, 000 of coinage (By 1710, it was found that there was only £5,000 to be found in the whole Exchequer!!!).
Yes, poor Scotland, as part of the Treaty’s terms, was to incur a share of England’s huge National Debt – which was at the English negotiators insistence, it must be noted – and all of this was stipulated by Article 15 of the Act of Union. The original text is below and please note the bolded words (my emphasis):
Article 15 (economics of balancing taxation)
Whereas by the Terms of this Treaty the Subjects of Scotland for preserving an Equality of Trade throughout the United Kingdom, will be lyable to severall Customs and Excises now payable in England, which will be applicable towards payment of the DEBTS OF ENGLAND CONTRACTED BEFORE THE UNION;
It is agreed, That Scotland shall have an Equivalent for what the Subjects thereof shall be so charged towards payment of the SAID DEBTS OF ENGLAND, in all particulars whatsoever, in manner following viz.
Yes, that really was the ULTIMATE reason for the Equivalent – to compensate Scotland for taking a proportionate share of England’s very high National Debt and also for being subjected to higher taxes after the union. Anyone fondly thinking it was still an act of enormous generosity by gentle-hearted England should really think again, I’m afraid!
Maybe that is another of the main reasons why England wanted the union in the first place: To get the Scots onboard in which to pay off some of the debt that England had actually accrued? Hmmm… that really is most interesting and it wouldn’t actually be surprising either!
Lastly, it should be pointed out that England, after their solemn agreement, only paid £150,000 of the Equivalent (which was £398,085 10 shillings in total) and much of this money was only promissory notes which couldn‘t be redeemed for cash in Scotland. This was actually less than half of the money promised and to add insult to injury, the English Government had actually borrowed this part of the money and, thus, this amount was now added to the new [I]British[/I] National Debt – of which the Scots had to bear their share of. So basically, the Scots had helped to finance their own takeover.
The rest – around £250,000 – has never been discharged in full to this very day.
So I’m sorry to break it to you, but it only be Scotland that was doing the sponsoring since 1707, and still is. Oil revenues anyone?
What’s with the changing of the text in my post?
That is very unethical. I am shocked.
If by suggesting your mum likes anal that caused you to take offence, well, allow me to clarify…
She does not like anal. She does it for the money and it is just a job.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.
Mash, you’re the one with girls hair – are you sure that’s not a freudian thing?
Sawney, Scotland was, to all intents and purposes, bankrupt after the Darian Misadventure. England paid Scotland’s national debt and gave a sum of money to Scottish nobles to distribute to their serfs which they mostly kept for themselves. Scotland didn’t assume England’s debt becuase from the Act of Union England and Scotland ceased to exist as sovereign nations and all assets and liabilities of both states became assets and liabilities of the new, united kingdom.
On the subject of north sea oil and gas:
Scotland’s budget deficit: £11.3bn
North sea oil and gas revenues: £7bn
Budget deficit net of north sea oil and gas revenues: £4.3bn
That’s assuming Scotland keeps the north sea oil and gas donated to it by the border change in the Continental Shelf Act 1968. Any divorce settlement would have to see the maritime border moved back to where it should be under international maritime convention and, of course, Scotland’s pro-rated share of the national debt based on both population and the disproportionate amount of public spending by the British Treasury.
Or you could believe Alex Salmond and Scotland will be the land of milk and honey when you’ve thrown off the shackles of English oppression.
Perhaps the Scots that are replying to this great taunt should put their money (or lack of it) where their mouths are and vote SNP.
I fully expect them to follow time honoured Scottish tradition and vote Labour again. Why jump ships when you are raking it in?
Who the hell votes Labour? String em all up by the onions!
SNP all the way baby!
Only reason we vote labour is to keep the tory scum out FUCK THEM SCUM CUNTS
Merry Xmas and a Happy New year (Now that out of the way)
Please send my an Independant Scotland so that we can get rid of the 50 to 60 million english millstones around our poor Celtic necks
Mar sin leat
Angus, please stick to your Gaelic language crap as you clearly cannot write or spell in ENGLISH !!!!! Maybe you should have your own North Britsh language? Oh yeah you already have you put ochh aye a noo, n see you jimmy in front of everything !!!!!
I’m surprised that nobody has taken the less that original “Skirt Wearing Haggis Chasers” route yet. I’m impressed…
And we do have our own “North British” language, it’s called Gaelic you donkey.
At least we have a country to be proud of. We have a national dish, Haggis, you have Fish and chips.
We have national dress, the Kilt, you have track suits and faux Burberry caps.
We have an unoffical national anthem, Flower Of Scotland, you have an inherited national anthem that is all about your precious monarchy.
You have congestion charging, we have beautiful wide open spaces with fresh air.
However, we are pretty good at heart disease right enough!
We have an unofficial national anthem, Flower Of Scotland, you have an inherited national anthem that is all about your precious monarchy.
We’ve got several national dishes, one of which is very popular in Adrian’s bit of the country (Yam Yam Land) – curry!
National dress – Morris Dancers outfit!
Unofficial anthem – Jerusalem!
Open spaces – Telford is in Shropshire, Englands most rural county/
ha ha ha curry RULES! Better be careful, I hear Adrain has a savage right hook!
National dress – Morris Dancers outfit!
Unofficial anthem – Jerusalem!
Open spaces – Telford is in Shropshire, Englands most rural county/
But it’s no Bonnie Scotland!
Sorry Wonko, but Scotland’s National Debt at the time of the union was VERY small so she wasn’t close to being bankrupt at all.
Also, as I had already stated, England never paid ALL of the Equivalent, so she had failed in honouring her agreement so Scotland was poorly compensated when accrueing the higher taxes that she later received in the new British State, which as you saw in the tract of the Treaty of Union I posted above, was to help pay off ENGLAND’s huge pre-union debts.
Another thing: Your £11.2 billion Scottish deficit that you mentioned above is based on the recent flawed Government Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland Report (GERS).
The thing that you (and a good many of your own compatriots I must add!) also need to understand is that is ONLY Scotland, of all the other parts of the UK, that gets this “unique” annual report. There is no corresponding report for any other country/region in the UK and even the Government have admitted this, as the parliamentary answer in the link below illustrates:
***”GERS is unique, and there are no directly comparable publications for the English regions, or for Wales and Northern Ireland.”***
So, be very, very wary about screaming about this ‘extra subsidy’ crap as your beloved England, if it had it’s own ‘GERS’ style report and under the same dodgy methodology, it could very well be running under a large deficit of around £100 billion as well. Remember that Scotland has nothing whatsoever to compare with at present, so who knows?
Also, you need to know that GERS actually plays down Scottish revenues by excluding the Extra-Regio revenues i.e oil/gas revenues. When the GERS authors do factor these in they never in the effects with Scotland’s overall GDP/GVA i.e. Corporation Tax and Capital Gains Tax for example.
It also makes other questionable assumptions which goes to show what a pile of crap the whole report is, as there are many serious flaws in the GERS authors methodology, as the report omit so much important data, and that so that the authors “estimates” are so misleading that the whole basis for their report must be called into question. For instance:
Income Tax take is worked out from a base sample of 400,000 from all over the whole UK. The interesting thing is their UK sample actually gives no indication of any Scottish sample size, thus it really must leave doubts as to the accuracy of it. Indeed, even the GERS authors admit that the whole sample is quite unsatisfactory. They still give a figure though, despite this poor accuracy.
Corporation Tax is worked out not on where the Corporation Tax is actually RAISED. If it was the GERS Scottish estimate of £2.4 billion would be shown as a load of crap. For instance the Royal Bank of Scotland Annual Report declared Tax at £2,155 million for 2004. Scottish Power’s 04/05 Annual Report, page 119, shows that they paid the UK exchequer £171.7 million in 2004 and £143.8 in 2005. With some of £2.3 billion in Corporation Tax alone from these two companies, it is inconceivable that the total Scottish contribution would be as little as £2.4 billion allocated by GERS.
Insurance Premium Tax revenue is calculated on a pro-rata basis. This doesn’t take account of where those policies are actually sold from. The Scottish financial sector is quite significant.
The Climate Change Levy and Spirit Revenue are calculated as if they are consumption taxes when they are production taxes. This completely avoids things like Scotland’s advantages in distilleries and energy production.
Landfill Tax on a pro-rata basis when – and even GERS admits this – “data indicates that Scotland has more landfill per head than the rest of the UK”. So if they have data why don’t they do an estimate?
GERS also calculates Scottish VAT on household expenditure alone. Where are the business payments?
So Wonko, take heed of the above examples, as by giving the annual GERS Reports such credence in all your ‘Scots are subsidised’ arguments goes to show that you are operating on a very flawed basis.
The really funny thing is that, inadvertently, you (and many of your fellow English nationalists) are actually acting like willing agents of the unionist Scottish Executive, by actually believing their dross and that is compounded by the fact of you, quite naïvely, disseminating their “truths” over the internet.
It is really a true pity as, ergo, you are actually doing their work for them! So, how does that feel in being Scottish Executive lackeys?
Come on you whinging, dress wearing wee botty boys – put our money were your mouths are and vote SNP.
Can’t wait to be rid.
Braveheart, you’ve obviously misheard – he has a savage writing book – it’s a Ghostbusters writing pad his mum bought him for Christmas last year. He brings it in his My Little Pony rucksack.
Sawney, the Darian Misadventure was mostly private money but with next to no substantial private funds in the whole country, who would pay into the Scottish Treasury? No money, no taxes but the bills still need to be paid – the country was insolvent.
GERS was accepted by basically everybody but the SNP who conveniently fail to mention things if they don’t fit in with their argument. I’m not complaining about that because if failing to mention budget deficits, the fact that in some parts of Scotland over 50% of the economy if in the English taxpayer-funded public sector and the good old “oor oil” argument where they include all north sea oil and gas revenues, including that that belongs to England – it’s all good because it gains them support from people who know that the SNP are telling the truth.
GERS is based on identifiable public spending from the Treasury. Things like Corporation Tax paid by Scottish companies carrying out most of their business in England can’t be wholly allocated to Scotland. Scottish Power, for instance, would have as many customers in one English euroregion as they would have in the whole of Scotland. Most of HBoS’ branches and offices are in England and the same applies to RBS. In fact, RBS have more subsidiary offices in Ireland than they have RBS branches in Scotland. How many of those companies break down their earnings and tax liabilities by UK nation so that it could be incorporated into GERS and if it was, what proportion of their liability would be due for business carried out in England bearing in mind that most of the big companies do most of their business in England? When the UK breaks up, they will pay taxes in both Scotland and England and most of it will be paid in England.
On the subject of VAT – VAT registered businesses claim back VAT, it is the consumer that pays the VAT at the end of the chain.
If you know that you’re right and I know that I’m right, we’re at a bit of an impassé don’t you think?
Lets stop all this talk of national debt and taxes Wonko they are savages end of a nd quicker we get rid of these leeches the better lol Vote SNP if you love Scotland so much…….!!!!
During one of the 7 days it too God to create Earth, he is sitting down with a cup of tea with the Angel Gabriel discussing Scotland.
“I’m gonna give them beautiful rolling country side, wonderful fresh air, massive oil fields, rare and beautiful animals, a drink so amazing it will become world renound. But I’m not stopping there; I’m going to populate it with a fun loving race of people, intelligent thinkers and great innovators. Why stop there, I’ll give them a sense of patriotism that is second to none!”
Angel Gabriel says: “Your being awfully nice to these people, what makes them so special”.
With this God turns and says: “There is nowt special about them, you just haven’t seen the neighbours I’m giving them yet!”
OK. Let’s see if it works this time..
What’s that man say something about Kilts !!
Doug, I like it. Might do an English version … with a smaller font obviously otherwise I’d run out of space.
Braveheart, I’ve seen that one before talking about England.
Actually Doug, it’s Scottish MP’s running the British government that want to keep Scotland, not English people. Why do they want to keep Scotland? England doesn’t vote Labour.
But the claim is that Scotland was seriously in debt. There is no doubts that she was poor, but as you stated she was ONLY insolvent. There is a fundamental difference between being in debt and actually being insolvent as you well know! Scotland was barely beholden to anyone at the time of the union and England couldn’t make that very same claim. Hence, which of the two countries was closer to bankrupcy at the time of the union? Another thing: How could England sponsor Scotland when she actually failed in her obligation to pay ALL of the Equivalent?
About GERS: Very good Wonko, at LEAST you have a good idea about the whole GERS system. I can’t actually say the same for many of your own countrymen, who I have sparred with over the net, as they have shown that they have basically don’t have a clue about it. So, it is quite refreshing to engage on the net with an Englishman who does.
You are correct about the whole Corporation Tax argument, even though I must admit you have well overstated the English contribution to the revenues of RBS and Scottish Power, as these companies have raised MOST of their revenues outwith the borders of the UK (RBS especially). You would not agree if I stated that most of Shell’s and BP’s – who have both of their international HQ’s in England – tax revenues should be allocated to Scotland then because of the North Sea oil, despite the fact both companies operate world-wide.?
And that is the thing: There is too much double standards when this GERS argument comes to Scotland, as the same could legitimately be said about how the Corporation Tax raised in ENGLAND as well.
As you have shown above, there is a HUGE difference between tax raised in Scotland, which is tax paid only by individuals and companies resident in Scotland, and tax generated in Scotland, which is the tax payable on all economic activity. GERS doesn’t, in the very least, take note of this at all!
Aside from oil revenues, all tax paid by the likes of Shell, BP, Tesco, Diageo, Morrison’s, ASDA, WH Smith, M&S, Sky etc is ALL counted as English as that is where their head offices are. By the same token the likes of HBOS & RBS DON’T have all their tax counted as Scottish by GERS i.e. The double standards argument again. The thing is that Taxes generated in Scotland, but counted as raised elsewhere, HUGELY outweighs taxes counted as Scottish but generated elsewhere. At least they do according to the Treasury.
So hence, that is the crux with the whole GERS argument: Only Scotland gets this report so where is England’s very own, so we can at least compare the respective tax revenues raised by each country?
Anyway, saying all that, you are quite right that we have both reached an impasse. We can only wait until independence comes to see who is actually right. We are both basically pissing in the wind at present.
Have a Happy Christmas and New Year to you!
In the number of seats won in the last election, England does vote labour.
There’s a big difference between Scots based MP’s in a British Government and being run by Scotland. However I think all the Scots Unionists in Government are tossers and I’m Scottish so I can see why they annoy English people so much.
You’re right in part about the Scottish Unionists but they are a bunch of spineless self-abusers and they’re not capable of deviating from the British Establishment line and I don’t see the English MP’s or Whitehall demanding Scotland goes.
I forgot to add water to the flag. That’s going to be the real resource soon.
Labour won more seats in England than the Tories but the Tories got 30,000 more votes in England. Funny that.
Next year will see Labour lose control of the Scottish Parliament, lets see them come running south of the border then. Bliar will be parading round in a union flag t-shirt and Brown will be crawling round on his hands and knees begging people to say they’re British.
I don’t think you’ll have long to wait for independence, it’s just a question of who goes for it first – England or Scotland.
Braveheart is correct, I do have a savage right hook, I tend to reserve it for welshmen that don’t know the difference between a Brummie and a Yam-Yam, so just for Wonko the Welshman’s benefit, a couple of definitions.
Brummie – A native of the great city of Birmingham. (The category that I fit into)
Yam-Yam – Someone that hails from the towns of the West Midlands that surround Birmingham, e.g Dudley, Tipton, Wednesbury, Wolverhampton.
Hopefully that clears that up for wonko aka Stuart Ivor llwellyn rhys Price Jones Bowen. I suspect that your vote in the next election will be going to Plaid Cymru, just to show your pride in the country you love, so sing it loud and sing it proud Wonko
This land of my fathers is dear to me
Land of poets and singers, and people of stature
Her brave warriors, fine patriots
Shed their blood for freedom
Land! Land! I am true to my land!
As long as the sea serves as a wall for this pure, dear land
May the language endure for ever.
Old land of the mountains, paradise of the poets,
Every valley, every cliff a beauty guards;
Through love of my country, enchanting voices will be
Her streams and rivers to me.
Though the enemy have trampled my country underfoot,
The old language of the Welsh knows no retreat,
The spirit is not hindered by the treacherous hand
Nor silenced the sweet harp of my land
You know the words pretty well Ade, you sure you’re a yamyam and not a sheep shagger?
Have a good Christmas and lay off the ho’s.
England does not want Scotland,DougtheDug(Entry 31). Just do we English a grand favour and vote SNP in May next year.
I wonder if I’m the only one who finds all these “oor oil vs English subsidy” arguments boring. In the end the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, and then the exact taste will probably depend on your location & beliefs.
I’m willing to bet cash money that Scots will find independance not as great as what the SNP led them to believe. But will require either matchsticks under finger nails or copious amounts of alcohol before they admit it.
I’m also willing to bet any monies we save from severing our tartan ties will not be used to improve our hospitals and other public services but will be frittered away (probably given to the EUSSR).
I don’t want to see an end to the Union, it’s just that after Tony & Gorden’s act of political opportunism (devolution) I can’t see any valid alternative.
Here we go again, f**king celts still pissed off about shit that happened centuries ago and trying to blame England for all your problems.
Dont flatter yourselves by thinking that we give a crap if you are independant or not, it is realy not worth losing sleep over.
However, here are a few questions I would like answering and a few points I would like to make.
your country is nearly as big as England but there are only 5 million of you. less than 3 million of you are of working age and currently employed.
Considering the tens of thousands of miles of roads, railways,water pipes, electricity cables etc, how exactly do you intend to pay for all of this?
“YOUR” oil has been providing funds to central government, which has been returned in subsidies many times over,not to mention all the scotish people who have been drawing a wage from the oil industry, most of which has gone straight back into the scotish economy.
Your population could be doubled by repatriating all of the patriotic scots currently residing in England. The amount of moaning they do about how much they hate us leads me to believe they would be greatfull.
I’m sure we could do without the compulsary Glaswegian piss head on every train and in every shop doorway. A few less militant union morons would also be a pleasant change.
I’m sure we could find a large enough catapult to return Gordon F**king Brown to you.
Independance should mean exactly that. If you want to work here, get a f**king work permit.
If you dont like policies made by the English government, tough shit its not your country.
Fund your own health service, schools and welfare state.
How much influence do you think you will have in world politics, 5 million people is a city not a country (there are 7.5 million in London alone).
I have been to Scotland a few times and the vitriolic hatred displayed towards me for no other reason but my accent discusts me, I would never dream of dishing out this type of abuse to a scotish person in England.
Did any of you see the recent quiz on T.v called “Your country needs You”. The Irish, Welsh and scotish ganging up to try and drag down The English, just like 20th century history. interesting to note that the English still managed to win the Quiz (admitedly not by much).
The major electricity suplier in my part of England is Scotish power, try selling English power in Scotland and you wouldnt sell enough to light a torch bulb.
You are small minded biggots and we will be better of without you
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