It’s for their own good?

! This post hasn't been updated in over a year. A lot can change in a year including my opinion and the amount of naughty words I use. There's a good chance that there's something in what's written below that someone will find objectionable. That's fine, if I tried to please everybody all of the time then I'd be a Lib Dem (remember them?) and I'm certainly not one of those. The point is, I'm not the kind of person to try and alter history in case I said something in the past that someone can use against me in the future but just remember that the person I was then isn't the person I am now nor the person I'll be in a year's time.

Israel is planning to cut the amount of power it supplies to the Gaza Strip claiming that because it has declared Palestine as “hostile” it is not bound by international laws requiring it, as an occupying power, to supply utilities to the civillian population.

The view of the “international community” is that Israel still has its obligations but, of course, Israel is about as interested in the “will of the international community” as Graham Norton is in girls.  As long as America supports them – which they will – then they will continue with human rights abuses in Palestine.

Israeli officials said that power will be cut completely, initially for 15 minutes after every rocket fired into Israel, with the period increasing over time.  General Vinali said he hoped that gradual disconnection from the power grid would encourage Gazans to produce their own electricity but doesn’t appear to indicate how long he estimates the power station to survive before being blown up by Israel in the name of counter-terrorism.  Israel regularly destroys infrastructure and then complains about the Palestinian government’s inabaility to prevent militants from attacking them.  A power station is unlikely to last for any significant amount of time and building a power station would need the Israeli’s to lift the unilateral economic sanctions it has placed on Palestine in order to withhold emergency aid it is given by various countries and organisations, including the UK and UN.

The UN has previously warned Israel that collective punishment on Palestinian civillians by cutting vital supplies and services is not acceptable.  Israel is the worst offending nation in history for ignoring UN resolutions and warnings – one of the excuses the Americans used for invading Iraq.

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  1. David B. Wildgoose (25 comments) says:

    Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. After all, the Palestinians deliberately target schools and children with their rockets and attacks. They teach their own children that Israelis are sub-humans who should be extirminated.

    There is even a UN agency *specifically* for the Palestinian people which has poured billions of pounds into helping the Palestinians. But this help is only seen as a subsidy towards their war of extermination against Israel, which is the ONLY democracy in the whole of the Middle East.

    What’s more, Israel is a democracy that treats human rights seriously. For example, homosexual Arabs who face the death penalty if their sexual orientation is discovered are automatically given sanctuary in Israel.

    Israel has built a modern first world liberal democracy.

    The only thing that the Palestinians seem capable of manufacturing is lies and propaganda.

  2. wonkotsane (1133 comments) says:

    Sounds perfectly reasonable to me

    One law for the rest of the world, one for Israel?

    the Palestinians deliberately target schools and children with their rockets and attacks

    Israel deliberately targets civillian areas, including firing rockets into tower blocks and markets which are also full of women and children. Bit of a difference between a bit of drainpipe and a home-made rocket and a helicopter gunship or a tank.

    There is even a UN agency *specifically* for the Palestinian people which has poured billions of pounds into helping the Palestinians

    All of which goes straight to Israel which then disperses the funds if and when it wants to. Currently its withholding all international aid.

    the ONLY democracy in the whole of the Middle East

    Because it’s a democracy they don’t have to abide by international law, can carry out human rights abuses, can ignore “the will of the international community” and can illegally occupy another country? Gosh, this democracy thing’s a brilliant excuse.

    What’s more, Israel is a democracy that treats human rights seriously


    For example, homosexual Arabs who face the death penalty if their sexual orientation is discovered are automatically given sanctuary in Israel.

    That must be a reall comfort to those homosexual Arabs that haven’t been blown up by Israeli tanks, jets and helicopters in the latest vote-winning indiscriminate, knee-jerk reaction to the latest attack on illegally occupying Israeli soldiers in Palestine.

    When the IRA were still blowing stuff up on the mainland would you have been happy to see the same response to Northern Ireland that Israel has had to Palestine? It’s not a perfect analogy because the Palestinians are fighting an invading army supported by the Americans whereas we were just fighting a group of armed activists supported by the Americans.

  3. David B. Wildgoose (25 comments) says:

    A third of the Israeli population is Arab. They have the vote, they have MPs, they is even an Arab member of the Israeli Supreme Court.

    So tell me how many Jews are there in Arab countries?

    Arabs also have the option not to serve in the Israeli Defence Forces, but many nonetheless still do so – some of the actions you see carried out by the Israeli Army are actually carried out by Arabs.

    I note that Lebanon has recently spent several months surrounding, blockading and bombarding a Palestinian town (\”refugee camp\”) in Lebanon because of the terrorist activities being carried out from within it.

    But apparently that\’s perfectly acceptable because the Lebanese aren\’t Jewish…

  4. David B. Wildgoose (25 comments) says:


  5. George Ashcroft (122 comments) says:

    David B. Wildgoose is quite right. It is surely time that democrats in this country mount a vocal defence of Israel as they stand as the ONLY democracy in the Middle East. Israel’s borders are surrounded by it’s enemies. Iran has called for Israel to be “wiped off the Map”. Would we put up with rockets being fired into our borders and the prospect of death by suicide bombers day after day? Of course not. And as a democracy, neither should Israel.

  6. wonkotsane (1133 comments) says:

    George, at this point in time I really think the only reason Israel is under any kind of threat from the Arab world is because of the illegal occupation of Palestine and the human rights abuses committed there. Most Arab nations have moved on and accepted the fact that Israel is there to stay, no matter how utterly, utterly stupid an idea it was to create the country where it was in the first place. Pretty much every organisation or country that is still calling for attacks against Israel cites Palestine as the reason.

    Do you honestly believe that if Israel pulled out of Palestine that nothing would change? Convincing every Arab nation in the Middle East to change its opinion of Israel while it’s still occupying Palestine is nigh on impossible. Convincing Israel to stop its illegal occupation of Palestine is much more achievable. If they can’t be convinced then they should be forced. There’s no reason to still be occupying Palestine, they can barely support themselves let alone build an army for an invasion.

  7. MANDERSON (4 comments) says:

    I see the same old rubbish is still being trotted out by the palestinian haters!
    They have mp\’s? How many and what power do they have? How many jews are there in arab countries? What does this have to do with anything?
    The only democracy in the middle east? ha! ha! It aint no democracy!
    \”…apparently that’s perfectly acceptable because the Lebanese aren’t Jewish. You are right, it is acceptable because Lebanon doesnt routinely kill kids, blow up old people and invade the other states in the region1 Does it?
    Whats more, Israel is a democracy that treats human rights seriously\” It isn\’t a democracy, it\’s a mono-religious, mono- cultural, mono-racial state! I know \’cos i\’ve been there and I took note of what happened when I was there. I listened to what people said and what people did. Israelis are arrogant, self-rightous pricks!

  8. Charlie Marks (365 comments) says:

    Iran has not called for Israelis to be killed, but for Israel to cease to exist as a political entity. Not the same thing. In the speech Ahmedidinejad (sp?) used the example of the Soviet Union ceasing to exist.

    I think that both Israelis and Palestinians have rights to self-determination. The occupation has to end and a resolution found without the interference of the US or EU.

    George, if you believe that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, you will be acknowledging that Iraq and Afghanistan cannot have democracy as they are occupied, Lebanon cannot have democracy because of the constitutional set-up left by the French and the support of Western powers for the failed Sinoria government…

  9. George Ashcroft (122 comments) says:

    Here is what Ahmadinejad said at a conference in Tehran entitled “A World Without Zionism”

    “The occupation regime of Qods (Jerusalem, or Israel) must be wiped off the map of the world, and with the help of the Almighty, we shall soon experience a world without America and Zionism, not withstanding those who doubt….To those who doubt, to those who ask is it possible, or to those who do not believe, I say accomplishment of a world without America and Isreal is both possible and feasible”.

    As the ghost of Hitler smiles out from Hell, what a dark place this world is becoming.

  10. George Ashcroft (122 comments) says:

    NEW YORK — Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair has said the world must not be \”forced into retreat\” against Islamic terrorists as it faced a situation similar to the Nazi threat before World War II. In his first major speech since leaving office in June, Blair told a charity dinner in New York: \”Analogies with the past are never properly accurate and analogies especially with the rising fascism can be easily misleading but in pure chronology I sometimes wonder if we\’re not in the 1920s or 1930s again.

    \”This ideology now has a state, Iran, that is prepared to back and finance terror in the pursuit of destabilizing countries whose people wish to live in peace.\”

    Blair\’s speech Thursday came days after U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates reiterated the Bush administration\’s stance that \”all options\” must be kept \”on the table\” in confronting the threats posed by Iran. This was a reference to the option of using military action against the long-time U.S. adversary.

    Addressing the issue of terrorists, Blair continued: \”There is a tendency even now, even in some of our own circles, to believe that they are as they are because we have provoked them and if we left them alone they would leave us alone,\” he said.

    Blair, who gave strong personal backing to U.S. President George W. Bush after the September 11, 2001 attacks, added: \”I fear this is mistaken. They have no intention of leaving us alone.

    \”They have made their choice and leave us with only one to make — to be forced into retreat or to exhibit even greater determination and belief in standing up for our values than they do in standing up for their\’s.\”

    Blair, who now represents the Quartet of the United States, Europe, Russia and the United Nations on the Middle East, said: \”Unfortunately I tell you in all frankness that this struggle is far from over.

    \”Out there in the Middle East we\’ve seen … the ideology driving this extremism and terror is not exhausted. On the contrary it believes it can and will exhaust us first.

    He added: \”America and Europe should not be divided, we should stand up together.

    \”The values we share are as vital and true and, above all, needed today as they have been at any time in the last 100 years.\”-CNN

    The Blair government had its many faults. Indeed, I was a political opponent of New Labour from its very inception. Nevertheless, on this issue it seems that only Tony Blair has emerged from among British political leaders with the right foresight,the right vision and indeed the courage to talk frankly about the very real threat we all face from Islamist terror. And whether it is in Britain, America, Israel, or anywhere else in the world where it appears, this meanace should be both confronted and defeated.

  11. Charlie Marks (365 comments) says:

    George, Ahmedinejad didn’t call for Israelis to be killed, did he? He’s never said that Jewish people should be exterminated, has he? In fact, he’s never even said that Iran wants nuclear weapons – it’s a bloody nuclear energy programme their after, and there doesn’t seem to be any hard evidence that they’re making a bomb.

    He could be lying, of course – even so:

    “Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said a few months ago in a series of closed discussions that in her opinion that Iranian nuclear weapons do not pose an existential threat to Israel, Haaretz magazine reveals in an article on Livni to be published tomorrow.

    “Livni also criticized the exaggerated use that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is making of the issue of the Iranian bomb, claiming that he is attempting to rally the public around him by playing on its most basic fears.”

    If you think that Tony Blair, a man who took the country into two illegal and unwinnable wars leading to millions of people being killed or displaced and a terrorist attack in London that killed 52 people and injured many more, is right on ANYTHING you must be insane.

    Do you want another war? If so I hope you are going to join up to fight it, because our servicepersonnel can’t take anymore. Perhaps you and Blair could go and fight your own fucking wars and let our troops come home.

  12. wonkotsane (1133 comments) says:

    It’s worth pointing out, at this stage, that America is about as fundamentalist as Iran. You can’t have a serious career in American politics unless you’re an outspoken, orthodox christian and the fundamentalists run the American establishment.

  13. George Ashcroft (122 comments) says:

    Of course, we all know Hitler didn’t actually call for Jews to be killed did he? What kind of world do you want to live in? A world where democracy and freedom are the prevailing ideologies – cos that is Britain, that is America and that is Israel – or do you want the world of Iran, Syria, Gaza, and the rest? The world of the wiping Israel off the map, the world of the Fatwa, the world of the suicide bomber? Shall I go on?

  14. George Ashcroft (122 comments) says:

    Incidentally, was it Tony Blair that got on the bus in London and blew it up? Was it George Bush that flew the Planes into the twin towers? Is it George Ashcroft plotting terror in the name of Islam in this country? Who did these things? Wonko, of course the Americans are as fundamentalist as Iran. So am I. Fundamentalist for democracy, for freedom, for progress and human liberty. Except I aint gonna kill anyone to achieve it.

  15. wonkotsane (1133 comments) says:

    If the Christian fundamentalists are running the American establishment like the Islamic fundamentalists are in the Middle East, does that mean it’s a religious war between fundamental Christianity and fundamental Islam and if it does then are suicide bombers on public transport over here better, worse or the same as carpet bombing entire villages over there? If Islam is repsonsible for terrorist attacks on the west then is Christianity responsible for the illegal invasion of Iraq? Or is there some difference?

  16. George Ashcroft (122 comments) says:

    Come off it Wonko, there is no equivalence between say, Israel’s defence of it’s people, it’s borders and it’s very existence as a nation and the actions of the bombers and murderers of her people.

    The murderers and terrorists over there are the same as the terrorists over here. They do not believe in democracy, in freedom and in liberty and it is certainly true to say that their religion is not that of the Bible or of Jesus Christ.

    The Israelis’ didn’t ask for the rocket attacks, the suicide bombers and the calls to “wipe Israel off the face of the map” . What we face is a war between those who favour freedom and democracy and those who would implement a very different system of law.

    It is fair to say that America is a “Christian” country in the same way that it is still fair to decribe Great Britain as a “Christian” nation, in that our laws and traditions are those of a Christian canon.

    The struggle we face is one that was not started by the “Christian” nations or by Israel. It is one that the west has faced for decades the reality of which it chose to ignore until September 11th 2001.

    That was the day that America woke up to the threat of terror that little Israel had faced for years and which we in this country and elsewhere have since experienced.

    To give the activities of America, Isreal and Britain moral equivalence with the actions of terrorists is the politics of surrender, the politics of betrayal and the politics of defeat.

    I don’t want to live under Sharia law. I want to be free!

  17. wonkotsane (1133 comments) says:

    It’s funny George, people quite often defend Israel’s actions by saying they didn’t ask for it and they’re only defending themselves. I’ve read up on the history of Israel and as soon as the UK and US announced their intention to creat a Jewish state, the Arab states already there said they would attack it. Israel was created by partitioning an existing Arab state even though Palestine and every other country in the region was opposed to it. To say that they didn’t ask for it is a bizarre contention to be honest. And the self defence argument doesn’t hold water – Israel is occupying Palestine (illegally), not the other way round. Palestine is defending itself against the (illegally) occupying Israeli military. Israel is defending itself against the Palestinians defending themselves.

    You agreed with me further up that America is fundamentalist. Muslims are as opposed to fundamentalist Christianity as fundamentalist Christians are to Islam. Which opinion is right depends on which side of the east/west divide you’re sitting on.

    I’m not condoning terrorism in any way but I find the blinkered, irrational defence of Israel very irritating. If Palestinians weren’t muslims it would be a different story.

  18. George Ashcroft (122 comments) says:

    So where would you have put the Jewish state? West Germany perhaps? Austria? Wales?

    Wonko, it doesn’t matter whether the terrorists feel aggrieved about the so-called injustices to which you refer. There is NO justification for terrorism and the indiscriminate slaughter of innocents.

    Terrorism is a crime against humanity and I consider terrorists to be the very enemies of mankind and as such they should be given no quarter and no consideration as to their purported grievances.

    Today we witnessed the sentencing of a number of those responsible for the worst terrorist outrage ever seen in Europe – the Madrid nail bombings. 191 innocents slain, hundreds more injured and maimed.

    What was the greivance that justified this appalling atrocity?

    And how many of the relatives of Madrid dead have indeed a just greivance against the killers and their Al-Queda inspired ideology?

    Yet just how many Spaniards have since gone on to be terrorists and murderers, exacting their revenge against those who killed their loved ones?

    The answer: NOT ONE.

    The reasons: Because Spain is governed by the rule of law and is a democratic country and unlike the terrorists, embraced democracy and freedom decades earlier;

    Because Spain does not have terrorist-sponsored schools that inculcate the hatred of its enemies;

    And because the Spanish majority understand, just as the British, the Americans’ and the Israelis’ today understand: That there is never, ever, any justification for terrorism.

    Never. Never. Never.

  19. David B. Wildgoose (25 comments) says:

    I wholeheartedly agree with comment 18 by George Ashscroft.

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